Episode 11 - Feminism - Part 2
Intro - The life of our soul is a journey with many twists and turns. This journey has times of discovery, growth, disruption, examination, perplexity, and harmony. Soul Sojourn is a podcast that is exploring this journey of the soul; considering the different segments of the journey, the different stops we make along the way, and the divergent paths that we can take as unique people with distinctive life experiences. Soul Sojourn hopes to provide room for diverse expressions of faith and welcomes questions and doubts about the journey of the soul. It recognizes that so often there is mystery in life and faith, questions that have no answers, and deep levels of uncertainty and precarity that are present in our lives.
Welcome - Hi there! This is Jenn Pedersen and I’m so glad that you’ve joined me today for another episode of Soul Sojourn. Today I am welcoming back my friend Donna. Last week we jumped in and started a great conversation about feminism and Donna has so much to share and so many fascinating stories from her life that we are going to make this a two part episode. Donna has become a new friend of mine, we met making swedish cardamom buns and just instantly became friends. So last week we talked a little about feminism and her experience of growing up and becoming aware of feminist ideas and today we’re going to continue our conversation surrounding feminism and radical feminism. Donna was involved with what she considers more radical forms of feminism. So Donna let’s jump back in here.
Donna: - Well I think we need a little context here. In the early 1960s it was the civil rights acts in 1964 and and equal pay act of 1963, which we were discussing that we are still not at an equal pay. Classified advertisement for job openings were still by sex, you had rape and domestic violence. We didn’t have the child protection laws. I remember one time I was 20 years old and my father was beating me, he was a violent man. I called the police and they asked “how old are you?” and then said “there isn’t anything I can do.” Because at that time, until we worked for legislation to change that, which is a radical feminist notion, because we were not getting the support of national organization of women. They were looking for legally equity but not for changing the laws that made the system possible for women to exist in.
At that time, to give some understanding. I was a piece of property, my father’s property. When I was at university, I had a bank account. My father had to cosign. If I wanted to withdraw money, my father had to cosign. Women couldn’t independently own a home in their own name, they couldn’t get a credit card, none of these things. So that’s what we started working for - we started health collectives, rape crisis center, and addressed how to understand the oppression you are under. Do you understand that there’s an oppression. What I want to emphasize is that the breakdown all the groups of women put their theoretical and philosophical basis began to see what they were looking at in terms of how to rectify women’s oppression.
You had the National Organization of Women (NOW), which was basically (I never belonged to - I’m not sure they would have accepted me). They were suburban white women, who wanted access to the system. They didn’t want to correct the system of oppression, they wanted access and there’s still a very mild kind of organization. What Sheila Firestone said in Sexual Politics is “the personal is actually political.” Power structure relationships, unequal relationships were at the root of what was wrong because it was institutionalized. And then institutionalization was the same thing that I was just talking about with my father. You are not an independent person, you don’t have the right to do what you want to do.
Jenn: You don’t even have the right to physical safety.
Donna: Yay, you don’t. There wasn’t the right for physical safety. My master’s thesis was on sexual encounters, self esteem post unwanted sexual encounters. To me beating women, and we worked hard on that one as well - domestic violence is something we still haven’t gotten straight about that wrong. You don’t touch me unless I want you to, male female, whatever. That understanding that you don’t have the right to do that. But as far as I’m concerned, physical violence is sexual. Rape is not sex, it’s power and it’s always been from time immemorial. That’s why when we do DNA testing, and we find out our lineage is different and you think there might have been a rape somewhere in your past.
Jenn: There most likely was a rape somewhere in your past. What are the statistics in the US? 1 in 4 women have been raped. The numbers are high. I was date raped in college and I know other friends who have similar experiences. So it’s common.
Donna: And I think it’s more common than we think, higher than the statistics. The statistics are only those reported. 1 in 4 women have had an unwanted sexual encounter, but I would say that 4 in 4 women have had an unwanted sexual encounter. I have to tell a story about my mother. She was an interesting woman. She married my dad, but I don’t think she loved him. We were in the grocery story, I was 17, and I was in the next aisle over. All the sudden I heard my mother say “Oh, put it away, it isn’t big enough to do anything with anyway.” Some guy flashed her and that was her response. There were peals of laughter coming out and I said “Mom, that was a great putdown.”
The notion then that we were working towards was emblefied by Roe v. Wade. People don’t understand what Roe v. Wade. A lot of men will come together and say, well what about the father. Roe v. Wade says you have to let the father know and it also said you had to wait 24-48 hours to make the decision. The people were thinking that the dad should be notified. Our premise as radical feminists was that the minute that we know that he’s the dad, then he starts support. We have again this whole piece of it, well if you get pregnant the pro-birth movement, I don’t call it anti-abortion. The pro-birth movement then you’re dropped by the wayside.
Jenn: Right. Cause they’re really not pro-life either. Cause all they want to happen is for the babies to be born, but then we don’t want to support those babies in any way or support their mother’s because God forbid we have social services that help out. Watch out - this is a soapbox of mine. Pro birth is a great name for the movement, also Pro controlling women’s bodies.
Women are the target of institutionalized power and often react against other women.
We need to look at why women act out. Some of the worst things that happen to us are by other women. We must learn to realize that sisterhood is powerful.
Why women in madness, why do women break? Because of the structure of patriarchy, we are not able to express who we are.
If you don’t know who you are at your core, if you don’t know yourself and like yourself you are not as attractive. As you come to know and like yourself, you attract the people into your life that you need.
Sisterhood is powerful. There is a connection between women that you can’t get with men.
I am hopeful in the twentysomethings in my life, because of their perspectives - they are not willing to put themselves in a box, they are not willing to be inauthentic. I’m hopeful that they can move the needle a bit and make positive changes.
Donna, I want to say thank you for coming on the podcast and talking about this important topic in our world. I have so enjoyed getting to know you over the past couple months and believe that our meeting was orchestrated by the universe at just the right time. You have been such an encouragement to me and I’m so thankful for our new friendship. Thank you for your willingness to share your stories and share about the passion you feel around elevating women’s voices in our world.
And to our listeners, I want to say thank you as well. Thanks for joining us on this journey and listening in. I hope that you were encouraged to think about some things in a different way and expand your own perspective on this important topic just a bit. I hope you’ll come back again next week on Soul Sojourn as we continue to explore the journey of soul. I look forward to what is to come, what stops we’ll take along the journey together. I’ll see you at the next stop.