Gender Straightjackets

This episodes patriarchy and some views on gender roles with the first guest co-host on the podcast, Jenn's husband Mike.  Together they talk about how patriarchy and specific ideas about gender roles have affected them, how they have placed them in gender straightjackets and how they are seeking to find a better balance of equity in their marriage.  

Thanks so much for taking the time to listen today. The life of our soul is a journey with many twists and turns. This journey has times of discovery, growth, disruption, examination, perplexity, and harmony. Soul Sojourn is a podcast that plans to explore this journey of the soul; considering the different segments of the journey, the different stops we make along the way, and the divergent paths that we can take as unique people with distinctive life experiences. Soul Sojourn hopes to provide room for diverse expressions of faith and welcomes questions and doubts about the journey of the soul. It recognizes that so often there is mystery in life and faith, questions that have no answers, and deep levels of uncertainty and precarity that are present in our lives. I look forward to what is to come, what future stops we’ll take along the journey together. I’ll see you at the next stop.

To connect with me visit https://www.facebook.com/soulsojournpod/
https://www.instagram.com/soulsojournpod/ or https://twitter.com/soulsojournpod

Transcript

Episode 5 - "Gender Straightjackets" Patriarchy & Complementarianism vs. Egalitarianism

Intro - The life of our soul is a journey with many twists and turns.  This journey has times of discovery, growth, disruption, examination, perplexity, and harmony.  Soul Sojourn is a podcast that plans to explore this journey of the soul;  considering the different segments of the journey, the different stops we make along the way, and the divergent paths that we can take as unique people with distinctive life experiences.  Soul Sojourn hopes to provide room for diverse expressions of faith and welcomes questions and doubts about the journey of the soul.  It recognizes that so often there is mystery in life and faith, questions that have no answers, and deep levels of uncertainty and precarity that are present in our lives.  

Welcome - Welcome to Soul Sojourn. My name is Jenn Pedersen. I’m so glad that you’ve joined us today for another episode of soul sojourn. Today we are diving in once again to define some terms, some philosophies of faith that impact our world and have had a deep impact on my life.  We are going to be exploring patriarchy and some views on gender roles.  Today, I’m excited to welcome my first co-host, my husband Mike who is going to help me explore these ideas and share some stories of how these concepts have affected our life together and our marriage.  Mike - welcome to the podcast.  Why don’t you introduce yourself  and share a bit about your own soul sojourn and faith background and perhaps share why you agreed to co-host with me today.

Mike shares - 

Well let’s dive in - We’re going to start today with a definition and some information about patriarchy.  Patriarchy is a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descendents are traced through the male line.  In this system men hold the power, privilege and dominance and women are often excluded from power, privilege and autonomy. 

In The Creation of Patriarchy, Gerda Lerner writes that Aristotle believed that women had colder blood than men, which made women not evolve into men, the sex thought to be perfect and superior.  Aristotle believed that the soul contributes the form and model of creation” - this implies that any imperfection that is in the world must be caused by a woman.    Lerner argues that the widespread existence of misogyny and patriarchy in cultures is not due to biological or psychological differences between men and women, but instead is rooted in historical explanations.  

The effects of patriarchy can be seen all around us 

• in the gender wage gap - In 1955 the wage gap was 69%, it widened to 55-58% in the 1960s and early 1970s, and then narrowed to 67% by 1982.  By 2005 wage-gap rose to 80%, but has plateaued at this number. The gender wage gap is a complicated issue.  In 2016 Forbes published an article entitled Gender Pay Gap Solution:  Ban Stay-at-Home Moms.  In this article they explain that a significant factor in the gender pay gap is due to the fewer years of experience women have on the job because, - according to research they cite, women don’t want to work full-time, but instead want to stay at home with their children.  I think this is a simplification, at best, of what is really going on for women.  There is a great deal of societal pressure for women to stay at home with their children, or at the very least go part time once they have children.  Seldom, if ever, have I heard a man questioned if he was planning to keep working after his child was born.  In a truly egalitarian society, a mother and father would negotiate to arrange for the best situation for both of their careers upon the birth of children.  And for some couples I know, that has meant the dad staying at home and the mom continuing to work.  
• We see the effects of patriarchy in the larger percentage of childcare and household tasks that fall to women than men, even when both are working full time.  Although some progress has been made in this area over the past 2 decades, the division of household labor in the U.S. households continues to be primarily tilted toward the traditional stereotypes - women are more likely than their husbands to take care of the house and children, and men continue to be the primary caretakers of the car and yard.  Research shows that the closer the salaries of the husband and wife, the more equitable the division of household and caretaking labor, but due to the gender wage-gap, it is harder for women to make similar salaries to their husbands.   
  • A gradual shift is taking place toward more equity in sharing tasks of the household work in recent years, but an area where the shift is lacking is in regard to the “mental load”  The mental load is a term for the invisible labor involved in managing a household and family, which usually falls to the woman.  The mental load is the thinking or cognitive labor, the overseeing of the household tasks - it’s being in charge of the never-ending list of to-dos that need to be done and then delegating the tasks to family members and following up to make sure they get done.
  • I will give my husband props that we have divided the household tasks pretty equally - he does the laundry, I do the cooking and we work together to do the cleaning.  But generally speaking when things need done the guidance comes from me as to what actually needs to get done and am the keeper of the calendar - keeping track of most of the appointments for our youngest son.    
• The effects of patriarchy also were a significant factor in the lack of ratification of the equal rights amendment - something that was introduced shortly after women were given the right to vote in 1919.
• We also see its effect in the discrepancies in women’s healthcare.  Throughout much of history, a woman’s worth depended on having children and as a result early medical views almost entirely correlated women’s health issues with reproductive health, failing to view the complexity of women’s health, which is as or more complex than men’s health.  Medical myths about gender have persisted and continue to impact treatment and diagnosis of women.  Numerous illnesses in women have been attributed to “hysteria” throughout history and even today.  I recently talked with a friend who said she had gone to the doctor about a significant health issue and he told her it was just due to her anxiety and would not run tests to try to figure out what is going on.  
• And patriarchy is not only harmful to women, it’s also harmful to men.  The men who are in power don’t just lord things over women but also over other men - especially men who they don’t feel fit within their set view of masculinity - the “macho man” view.  I have seen this first hard as my husband has been looked down upon by other men because he’s a kind-hearted nerdy guy who doesn’t fit the macho man stereotype.  Additionally the macho man stereotype doesn’t allow for men to express feelings (other than anger) because that is perceived as weakness, as a result this has had an negative effect on the emotional development of many men in our society.  

Discussion

Complementarianism vs. Egalitarianism

The complementarian perspective of gender roles holds that men and women have separate roles in marriage, family life, church and elsewhere.  This view holds that masculinity and femininity were created by God, who had different roles in mind for men and women.  Complementarians believe that only men should hold church leadership positions over other men.  Women may only hold positions that do not place them in authority over men.  They also believe in a patriarchal view of the family, with the father as the head, the leader.  Within Christianity, complementarians believe that a husband should love his wife as Christ loved the church, and that a wife should submit to her husband as the church submits to Christ.

This perspective undermines the worth of women, ultimately communicating that women are less than men.  It gives a great deal of power to men to lead and can become very damaging when a man takes this power in leadership too far.  Even in relationships where the man is a kind and good-hearted man, complementarianism undermines the ability of a relationship to flourish and grow from a place of equal value.  

The egalitarian perspective holds that all humans are equal and able to hold the same roles in marriage, family life, church and elsewhere.  Egalitarians hold that men and women can both hold church leadership positions; that spouses are equally responsible for the family; that marriage is a partnership of two equals submitting to one another, and that roles should be ability-based, not gender-based.

Discussion

• Our struggles to fit ourselves into complementarian roles and the negative impact on our marriage.
• These narratives continue to impact us - me apologizing to Mike that he had to get Seth lunch when we were both working from home one day.

Feminism - In the setting I grew up in and in the churches we were involved in in our 20s and 30s feminism was really a dirty word.  With the understanding that women were designed to commit their lives to being a support to their husband, a helper for him - there was very little acceptance of the ideas surrounding the feminist movement.  Most conservative Christians I know are okay with women having some autonomy in our world - being able to vote and open their own bank accounts and work, at times.  But the idea of women exploring their own passions and desires and fighting for equality in our society was simply not an acceptable view.  In the complementarian perspective of gender roles, I heard often when I asked questions that were not really appreciated about the value of men and women under this view, that men and women are equal in value, but have different roles to play.  And ultimately that men were to be the ones in charge and women were to follow, which ultimately leads to women being considered of lesser value.  Many would argue with me to this day that this is not what they believe, but their actions speak louder than their words when they subjugate women to lesser roles in the church.  In many fundamentalist settings women can teach children’s Sunday school, work in the church cafe or kitchen or nursery and teach other women, but are not allowed to teach other men in either a Sunday school or small group setting and certainly not from the pulpit.  This ultimately communicates a very clear message to all who are a part of these systems - men are more and women are less, men are leaders and women are to be followers, men are in charge and women should do what they are told.  

Discussion

If you want to dive much deeper into the issue of patriarchy I would recommend checking out another podcast called Breaking Down Patriarchy with Amy McPhie Allebest.  This podcast explores this topic quite thoroughly and has been so enlightening for me in the past year or so as I have further explored my perspective on patriarchy and feminism.

A big thanks to my husband Mike for agreeing to be the first co-host and dive into these difficult topics with me.  I appreciate your openness, your humility and your integrity to consider tough questions and other perspectives and genuinely transform your thinking about topics that would easier left alone.  I’m thankful to be on this journey together with you as my life partner.  And thank you listeners for joining us today.  I hope that you were encouraged to think about some things in a different way and expand your own perspective in some small way today. I hope you’ll come back again next week as we continue to explore the journey of faith. I look forward to what is to come, what stops we’ll take along the journey together.  I’ll see you at the next stop.